five

I recall that Grahame's picture did end in fact end up in the Top 5 that month, and Luna had several pictures in the Top 5 this time round Seriously, there is no perfect system, and some great pictures will be left out no matter what. I think weighting, with exclusion of outliers, addresses and balances each of the potential problems, even if individual outcomes are not always to someone's liking.

Dragon

I do think a cumulative vote (or Add Votes) system can work. The trick is to give every picture 30 days to accumulate votes. So the votes gained in the first 30 days would be added together for a total, any votes after that would just be gravy. The next Top 5 30 days after your pic was submitted would be the one you were eligible for. So if I submit a pic on May 29 it would not be eligible for the May top 5 but rather for the June top 5 as that would allow it time to gather more votes.
That's the only way I can think of to make an Add Votes system work fairly for everyone involved. Then every vote, including 1 votes, would help you towards the top5.
I also wouldn't mind if the votes were not public until the top 5 is out. Meaning I could go into my gallery and see what the votes for my pics are at but no one else could see the vote count until it didn't matter. I think that might solve some (though probably not all) of the spiteful 1 voting.

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You're right again, five. I gave a bad example. There have been several really high scoring drawings that didn't make it ... I just don't have the time right now to look for them.

matthew

I disagree with the needing 30 days... pics pic up nearly all of their votes in the 1st 24-48 hours... there have been plenty of pics to make the top 5 when submited on the last few days of the month...

for example... http://www.thinkdraw.com/picture.php?pictureId=27784 was submited 26 1/2 hours before the months end and did fine... I find that my pics done later in the month are MORE likely to make the top 5 than the ones done earlier in the month...

five

I do think it would help if people could not see the vote totals during voting (though a determined person would use the number of comments as a proxy for the popularity of the picture).

But, but, but..... just adding the votes, even if understandable, really is in the end unfair because people will get friends, family, and fake IDs to run their totals too far out of reach of most TDers who do not do that. Mathematically, the weighted system works to somewhat level this playing field, and if the system uses an algorithm to exclude outlying data or patterns of abuse reflected in the data, it also addresses, as best it can, maliciously or strategically voting down other people's work.

Dragon

I do think you're right matthew that most of the votes are within the first couple of days. I just know if you didn't give everyone a level playing field then there would be people crying about how it wasn't a fair system.
I don't think you're wrong five. I'm just not very math savvy and was trying to come up with a simple system that would engender as few complaints as possible. No system will ever be complaint free, I'm sure there will always be some who feel there's something wrong with whatever is implemented. I think the only way to solve the solution entirely is to get rid of the Top 5's altogether, but I don't want it to come to that because it gives so many people a lot of pleasure.

matthew

Might want to pay attention to voting habits of a user that only votes on a single user... this would flag people like my younger sister & her daughter (I don't know if they even visit this site anymore) who if they voted, it was only on my pics... BUT, it would also flag "fake ID's" created just to boost your own vote count... and someone pointed out that TD can eliminate voting rights of abusers...

matthew

Of course, I don't know what ability TD's computer has to track that sort of thing... It is beyond me...

LadyO

I like the idea of not showing the votes until it's over.

matthew

How about checking a box when you submit your pic to say "YES" or "NO" to do you want to submit this pic for top 5 consideration... Then those pics are kept in a cue till the last 5 days of the month... That would give the pics aproxamately the same amount of time to receive votes... They could all go into a "showcase" type of gallery for easy viewing...

Just a thought...

DMarcella

I agree with LadyO, I love the idea of not showing the votes until it's over. I'm not sure on the idea Matthew has on a yes or no for Top 5. I will be thinking about it before I decide.

five

I like the idea that people would nominate their pic for Top 5 -- at least that way, they wouldn't think an undeserving picture of their own ended up there.

It's also possible, though logistically more cumbersome for TD, to have 25 days in which the weighted average would be used to narrow the field for Top 5 consideration, and then 5 days of new voting on the narrowed field, or perhaps even different guest judge(s) (picked by TD from TD participants) to select the Top 5 from the narrowed field. Most of the time, the strategic voter would not be able to knock the really good pictures out of contention for Top 5.

matthew

hmmm... that would mean that pics submitted after the 25th day can't get in... so 5 or 6 days every month we would have "just for giggles week" where we would know in advance not to submit our "art" but just have a good time...

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Burdoning TD with the responsibility of 'choosing' winners, or inviting 'guest judges' may be asking too much. Every individual has different tastes in what they like and what they ignore. The voting system (excluding the manipulative voters) draws votes from a whole spectrum of different tastes ... it should work perfectly ... if the abusers could be deterred.

matthew

.......I'VE GOT IT!!!..........

...The only votes that will count are the ones cast naked from times square...

Login

Off you go then, matthew.

matthew

Each country would have to have their own "Times Square" equivalent...

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I don't think we will get many votes from Helsinki, then.

five

Would that be a bad thing, Matthew? Maybe people could relax, have fun and not put their egos on the line.

I do think it's cumbersome, as I noted. As for different tastes, since guest judge(s) would change each week, over time, the biases shouldn't overly hurt anyone in particular. Anyhow, as I noted, you could just restart the voting during the 5 days to go from the narrowed field to the final Top 5. Some one could still be abusive... there will always be risk of abuse.

Back in the real world, these kind of things happen to artists when there are actual stakes (e.g. participation in the show, prize money, etc) beyond a hit to the ego, since judging art is subjective. Even with "blind" jurying, jurors can recognize the style of particular artists.

five

That last reply does not go to your naked comment, Matthew... it goes to the 5-6 days off a month comment.