kmkagle

If it's a child doing something, where's the parents? Don't they want to see the drawing first. I think I would at least look at it after submittal and then explain what's wrong and remove it. I'm taken back when I see things like that. I'm convinced it was an adult "with issues".

Kugusch

Ok, subject offensive, but not TD....last year at Karneval time here in Germany there was a big newsbit about a float made for the Carneval in Rio....a huge pile of starved to death human remains, obviously geard at the holocaust. The float ended up being forbidden to run, which *I* thought it was a shame. The had a half a million invested in it and it was shocking, yes, but also really made you think. Maybe an odd time to have it on carneval, but traditionally that's the time you can really speak your mind without punishment.It was an incredible piece of art and I think it would have gotten the right message across to more than a few people that need to receive a message. I don't know if anyone's seen it, if it was covered in the US or elsewhere. It's, like I said, the same subject, just different angle. Anyone interested might find it in a search for "holocaust float Rio" or something like that, I'd love to hear some opinions on that one...

Kugusch

Me again...that search actually brings a load of results, here's one with a decent picture of it: http://gridskipper.com/64941/the-marvelous-holocaust-memorial-carnival-float

kmkagle

My nephew, only 2 days ago, sent me holocaust pictures. I couldn't look anymore, not because of offensive but because of how those human beings were made to suffer, I'm chocking up just talking about it. I think for a parade it might have been difficult for children to absorb. Grownups would have been able to understand, not understand, there's no understanding why that happened. I can't comment on that issue, you were close to it and in a better position to comment. I would love to see the peace that the Lord meant there to be. Thank you.

kmkagle

peckerw00d is back. Same ones as yesterday and then some!

kmkagle

These swastikas are on the showcase, I shouldn't say several, should say at least one.

Kugusch

there were 3 or 4 on page one a little while ago, but they dissappeared VERY quickly ;0)

kmkagle

Normally you would just ignore, that, can't be.

Baldur

This whole episode is beginning to seem suspicious, almost like a social experiment.
I keep expecting to get someone jumping in saying 'Ha Ha, it was me, I can't believe you guys got so up in arms over this'

Dragon

I really hope nobody who's a regular on here would think that was funny.

Baldur

I'm back with my conspiracy theories

Dragon

Well I do love a good conspiracy theory.

kmkagle

If you recall, I don't like pretend very much. This isn't funny at all. I'm sure that's the feeling of most TD'ers?

Kugusch

didn't I read somewhere yesterday that if 3 people report a picture it disappears from the gallery? Well that's what I did when I saw them, and figured two others did as well, because when I checked the first one, by the time I got back to gallery there were two more new ones...and then a little while later they were all gone. Now the float I thought was a "good" thing as it made people think, while you all are absolutely right about the TD-ffity swastikas here...just plain annoying!

sheftali52

Swastikas are not interesting or appropriate for this site. I ignore them and hope the twit who drew them will go away. And those who find dog poop interesting might be a little warped.

anotherronism

I cannot stay out of this. Sorry all beforehand. And I don't even know yet what I plan to say. But I do know I'm about to say something!

I posted a response yesterday (This space intentionally left blank) trying to garner some responses. No one bit.

Cencorship is censorship.

Even if you actually know the intent - you are still censoring.

When you do NOT know the intent but assume things like it's a kid or a warped adult or whatever - it's even worse as you base your censorship on assumption.

I posted in these forums a while back a thread about all the christian (lower-case intentional) images showing up and all the threads being pre-empted by religious messages.

This caused a minor hub-bub and, I still think, an alienation between myself and some major TD players.

But my point then was what if I posted demonic images or occult images. Would the christians amoung us defend my right to do so?

I am horrified at the atrocities of WWII. The nazis and their symbology disturb me greatly.

I also think slavery was abhorrent.

BUT! And I DO have a BIG but!

We cannot pretend these things did not happen.

Do you all know what offends me most. And I mean this (my space bar is broken so forgive me for run-on words)...

I am truly and deeply offended by people who take offense at things.

You might say I am glib or my argument is weak. No one I know has ever taken me on head-to-head on this subject.

But if YOUR taking offense at whatever it is is valid then so is mine. And if you think people should actually change their behaviour or censor themselves or be censored by others for whatever the heck offends you then you MUST accept my offense at people taking offense as offensive and deal with it on a realistic basis.

Which puts the ball squarely and completely in your court.

If you are offended by swastikas then I am offended by you.

Period! (Exclamation emphasized!)

We live, we must live, in a world of differing viewpoints.

The original native americans would surely think an American flag is insulting in the extreme. But no one, anywhere is suggesting that icon is offensive.

Where does censorship end? Is it majority rule? Maybe.

But it's oft-times theminority who are coddled in these cases. The single squeaky wheel who everyone is afraid to say to; are you mad? Change the channel or move on.

Your taking the time to be offended is offensive to me!

My 15yo niece went to the bookstore last week and bought a strange book for someone her age. It is the Rise and Fall of The Third Reich. The cover is emblazoned with a swastika. She apparently read Anne Frank's Diary recently and has become fascinated with history and, specifically, the insanity of the Nazi's. She is NOT worshiping or condoning their behavior. She is trying to understand human nature. You cannot understand a thing without looking underneath it!

Would you all have that bookpulled from libraries because of it's cover art? Would you not have thismoment in history studied and examined? Or would you have it erased so as to protect your overblown sensibilities??

I mean this next sentence with every fiber of my being.

Stop being such whining pussies! (Yes - censor this too - it'll make your arguments so much more cogent and easier to defend!)

I chose those words carefully - not out of anger or frustration - but intentionally to incite anger in you! Now look at that anger. What is it? At what is it directed? At who?And why?

I love the playful nature of TD. I love it. And I have been distraught when it has sunk to new depths in the past.

But censorship is the lowest depth. And you people, you self-appointed mind-police - you are the ballast.

I will not read this thread further. I do not care what your responses are. I just don't.

I'm not quitting TD over this but I am disgusted!

Who will police the police?

Let he amoung you who is without sin cast the first stone.

I drew back-to-backpictures of naked boys and no one was offended. But cross a few lines at the wrong angle and viola! Offender! Him. There - he's the one!

Bah!

sheftali52

I stand by what I said. Others are entitled to their opinions.

Login

I understand what you are saying, ron, but any drawing that truly offends me, or could possibly encourage others to use this as a porno site, will have my vote for deletion.

Baldur

Well Ron has a bigger soapbox than I do.
His aguments however don't convince me.

I do not believe all censorship is bad.
In some respect we censor the world around us each day, Simple choices such as what television or radio statio you tune into is in itself censorship.
One of the choices that comes into play for me is that I do not watch television programs that involve car chases and gunfights.
Does that mean that I am in denial of volence in the streets?
No it means that I choose to keep the environment in my home more peaceful to the extent that is possible.

Would I read 'the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich'? Probably.

How many of us have raised children? Did you ever censor what your children watched or listened to?
My children had an appetite for horror and gore that did not get satisfied until they were older and able to handle the stress. Dad was not going to have them up all night terrified because they wanted to watch a horror movie.
I have the right to those decisions as as a parent.

Would I oppose a holocaust themed float in a parade? I think yes.
A parade of the nature that Kugusch explained is not the venue where it belongs.
An advertized exhibit of it somewhere would be different, it should be on display
The difference here is that you should not have it thrust in your face in a setting where you've brought your family intending to be have a good time.

I will continue to report Swastikas who's sole intent is to shock and offend. Most likely we will be seeing more of them.

Baldur

As to Ron being offended at my being offended,
I'm sorry, but I am
thay just doesn't go away