matthew

...The main reason I have changed my opinion on this whole subject was when my "IESVS NAZARENVS REX IVDEORVM" pic received 25 votes in the 1st hour after I posted it...

...I was so glad I posted it after seeing the overwhelming response to it. I had considered never posting it because I liked it sooooo much & wanted to keep it for myself & away from criticism...

...Alas, my pleasure quickly turned when I received a vote of 4 the next hour...

...That one vote... That one persons opinion... Has now taken from me any consideration for top 5...

...I may one day do a drawing better than this one, but I can not imagine that day...

...I am not saying that by the end of the month it will deserve to be in the top 5 because better pics by better artist may be drawn... But now a pic with 10 votes of 5 will beat it out...

...and though it is not a good trait to express my ego on this pic...

...I was hurt...

...FYI: if you don't know the pic I speak of... http://www.thinkdraw.com/picture.php?pictureId=22733

...I believe other great artist have been hurt by this same system... They are no longer with us...

kmkagle

Matthew - It is not fair for people to win 4 and 5 pictures in top 5 for one month. Let's be fair. This is why people don't come back. It wouldn't matter if I left or not. I'm new here but I think I have a right to question things. I'm asking you since you seem like the "go to" guy? Heck, even little Brandon wanted to leave, there ya go! My Aries side is coming out, not good.

matthew

...Then it wouldn't be a top 5... it would be the top 5 that are left over since 3 or 4 pics were past over due to meeting their quota in some other category...

...Fair is... If you call it a top 5... then put in the top 5...

...What you want is coddling...

...Don't get me wrong... I want everyone to improve... And there are only a few that give out as many encouraging comments to new drawings as I do...

...But I am not about to lie & say a pic is one of the top 5 when it is not...

...I was the 1st to say you were screwed over just before the top 5 was posted... your horse & rider was one of the best I ever saw on here...

...Fair is not screwing you out of that honor by one person giving you a 4 vote... You earned your way into the top 5 and should be honored for it regardless of how many top 5's you receive...

...Screwing anyone out of honor & recognition for an awesome pic in order to give what they earned to someone who didn't earn it is not fair... It is socialism...

kmkagle

I do not want coddling and I don't appreciate that. I still think 3 and 4 are a bit much and so is 5. I will not change my opinion on that. Think what you want, you have an opinion and I have one. I did not intend to have this turn into what it has. I asked a question. I have that right. Two tops in top 5 are fine. Yes, it's an honor. But for how many people?

matthew

...Sorry for comming across harsh... You would have to know me to know that I am anything but...

...Unfortunately my happy go lucky personality & tone of voice can not transfer into the written word...

...I was not discounting your opinion hun... Just voicing mine... I started this tread asking for opinions...

...I am however VERY opinionated & do not sweeten my opinion... I just say what I feel...

... I also; as Baldur can attest to; have no verbal filter. (That does transfer to the written word well)... lol

kmkagle

You did come across as harsh. I can match wits with you or anyone else anyday. But not over this! I believe you are the one who stated about the number of votes needed to be in the top 5. I had more votes than one of them and therefore should have been put in. This is what got me upset. You would be too. Right or wrong? I do not like arguing, I do not give a darn about top 5, votes or anything, it's principle and fairness that I'm very strong on. When children notice this, so do adults Matthew or may I call you Matt? This whole thing gives off the wrong opinion. You have to know me too to know I'm not a trouble maker. It's hard to talk to people through this method and I wouldn't want you or others to get a wrong opinion about me. There's things I take very seriously. I hope we're still, what do you want to say, drawing buddies. Hopefully, not bitter enemies.

matthew

lol... Are you insane... I love your work... look at the A different idea for Top 5 in the feedback forum ... page 2... and you will read where I was very upset about your "Long Journey Home" pic...

...as a matter of fact... I made the 6th comment on that pic saying...

...6. matthew wrote:
" WOW!!! I hope this makes top 5... it is remarkable..."

Ernie

Has anyone noticed that it is only the people who have top 5 worthy artwork, or top 5 rated artwork, who have an issue with the current rating system?
Yes, the pictures take forever to do, not one of mine has ever become close to being top 5, and i really don't are what u rate it, i do them for me, and to see what comments i can get on them.
If people shouldn't be allowed to vote 4 because it ruins ur chances of getting in the top 5, why not remove the voting system all together? People voting shouldn't feel like they have committed a mortal sin by voting less than 5 if the option is there. Sure, the 1 vote bandit is different. But only those who get in the top 5 regularly and consistently seem to be offended/frustrated by the current system, because other people are getting in there too.
January's top 5 has 30 pictures and only 18 artists. Which means those artists are in there multiple times. I'm not disputing the quality of the pictures. But those who dominate the top 5's already with so many pictures in there, are complaining that their pictures are not getting the respect/recognition they deserve.

But, to answer Matthew's original question, number of views is too hard to police, because you can view your picture yourself as many times as u like to get it up there. Most ratings i think is fair, because if people are passionate enough to vote, whether its a good vote or a bad vote, they care enough to vote, so that should count. Most comments, again, baldur's story ones for example, the first 7 comments are his own, telling the story, so that is too hard to police, and some turn into conversations.
I like the idea of accumulative votes, given by someone, can't remember who, so a 1 vote still adds 1 to the tally. a 4 still adds 4. it doesnt take anything away, it adds to it. so the top 5 would be the highest number of votes added together, not only 5 votes.

kmkagle

I want you to know too, that when comments are made on my pictures, I do try to go to that person's pictures and give a sincere comment. I put my heart into these things and that's what bothers me so much. I saw your comment and it was appreciated. I thought along the way the lion would make it too, maybe. I didn't know for what periods of time drawings were selected.

matthew

Ernie...

Yes you are correct... It is those of us that vie for top 5 that do not like the system...

...I don't want my 4th best goth pic in the top 5... I don't want my best pic not being considered...

...The top 5 are all good pics, but the artist that have a pic in the top 5 have better pics that CAN'T make it because of a 4...

...A 4 is a great compliment & should count as such... but the way the system works now... a 4 is a death sentence...

matthew

and as far as only 18 artist... I am sorry... I set a goal to try to make one pic qualify in each medium...

...I was unable to do so...

...and it burnt me out with the effort...

...You will not see as many from me again...

matthew

...I plan to try one detailed pic each month now...

...Of coarse it will not make the top 5 no matter how many votes it gets...

...I may just redo the same pic again...

...I would love to see my Jesus in the top 5...

Ernie

Matthew... if there was no top 5 and no rating system, would u not spend time and effort creating pictures? Do you know get some level of self satisfaction out of seeing what you have created, and knowing others can see it too?

And while the same people in the top 5's are those who care about the voting, it implies that only the people who make it there are the ones trying to get there. It feels.... feels... like there is an us and them attitude with comments like that. Those not in the top 5 aren't trying to make pictures worthy of there. I do the best i can, as do u, as does luna, as does puzzler, as does anotherronism, but my best will never match their bests, so i just plod along, but i don't resent anyone who gets in the top 5. don't get me wrong. I am in awe of what some people can do on here.

please see my comment on 'a different idea for top 5' for another rant on this. because there is no point in repeating it all here. but yeah, the forum seems to have taken on a life of it's own... and not a positive one, and i just feel sorry for Rachel reading all of this.

matthew

Ernie... You are a breath of fresh air...

...I was of the same mind once... (see my "I don't care forum)...

...This past month was different because of the goal I set...

...I did have a pic in every medium in the top 5... but 3 days after the end of the month & a few minutes before the top 5 was posted, my pics were voted down & out... I was disapointed...

...I even looked at my wife and asked "how sad am I that I am disapointed by that"...

...But what really got my goat was kmkagles pic being voted out... It was by far my favorite for the month... Lucky my candy pics were voted out at the same time or she wouldn't have one there at all... but her pic that made it is not her best...

...It should be...

matthew

...But If they get rid of the top 5...

...Would I still draw...

...Yes...

...Would I still reach for the same quality...

...No...

...The top 5 gives me a larger audience...

...The larger audience gives me the comments that I have become addicted to...

anotherronism

Here here Matthew.

I am addicted to the audience and the comments myself.

It's got to be vote-no vote. It's fair (except for those multiple-user households out there - you know who you are [grin emphasized]

My astronaut pic made top 5. I commented that it's not my best work. I don't believe it is. At least from an artistic point of view. My "And Hope Fell" and "The Kid" are far better but they both fell right off the radar.

I cannot put them back up top in the gallery and I cannot beg people to look at them. But getting a Top 5 honor might get people looking at my gallery and give actual criticism on earlier works.

And that's my point - right there - without realizing it I typed Top 5 Honor. And that's what it is - an honor.

As for Top 5 people being the one's comlaining - it might be because the Top 5 people are the ones doing the most prolific work.

I have no problem if someone swept the Top 5. All Themes, all spots. Why not? If it's deserved.

But what is not deserved is an unfair rating system.

Vote, no vote! Vote, no vote! Vote, no vote!

Login

There are strong undercurrents in all this and that is sad. We are all in the same boat here. Even the less popular of us get strings of 5 votes and then, overnight, a whole load of our pictures are voted down, right across the board. Probably we have all experienced it. Whether the culprit does it out of spite or because of their own will to win, I don't know. The truth of it is that the voting system is not working because there are too many ways of interfering with it. I assume that TD are working on the solution right now. I doubt whether the best possible solution will satisfy everybody, but I hope TD can come up with it soon because I love this site. It has given me hours of pleasure ... not just drawing but viewing other poeples drawings and comments.

marg

Login.. I'm with you.

I started questioning ratings in the first couple of weeks after I started, 'cos my average was 4.8 - and then in 5 minutes it dropped to 4.3.

We all love the site, we all want to encourage newbies and younger artists, we all want to show respect for great pictures.. and we all like to vote for the fantastic pictures that some of the top artists produce (whilst trying NOT to join their fan clubs !) or that some nobody has produced.

A sort on best pics this month would be brilliant - a top 5 based on accumulative most ratings would be excellent - a good night's sleep for most of us would be an interim solution.

Love you all & bon soir !

matthew

What is this sleep thing you speak of???

marg

yeah, well.. OK.. someone told me it was a GOOD thing to have..